What 2.4GHz Amp for QO-100 ??
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This forum is run by the BATC (British Amateur Television Club), it is service made freely available to all interested parties, please do not abuse this privilege.
Thank you
What 2.4GHz Amp for QO-100 ??
I have a very effective voice setup running for QO-100 which uses a DX Patrol 12w amp into a 1.2m dish. I have found that it is way under powered for DATV on QO-100, even on 125 it's only about 1/3 of the height of the beacon on the Wideband Spectrum Monitor.
I see other stations running 333 and topping out around the same height as the beacon if not higher. so what sort of AMP is recommended to get to a usable power output please.
Obviously some stations will be using HUGH dishes, but 1.2m is about the most I will 'get away with' so lets not go down that road
I see other stations running 333 and topping out around the same height as the beacon if not higher. so what sort of AMP is recommended to get to a usable power output please.
Obviously some stations will be using HUGH dishes, but 1.2m is about the most I will 'get away with' so lets not go down that road
Regards
Mark - G1INU
Mark - G1INU
Re: What 2.4GHz Amp for QO-100 ??
Others may/will disagree but I would suggest 50 or 60 watts (measured at or very near the feedpoint) will be a good number for a 1.2 metre dish.
73
Graham G3VZV
73
Graham G3VZV
Re: What 2.4GHz Amp for QO-100 ??
Thank's Graham, I have a 30w amp in my portable setup but figured that wouldn't be enough. That is one of the E-Reon amps, unfortunately the next one up from that I could find was in the 250-300w range which I figured was way over kill, and would end being run at a fraction of it's design output, so effectively a waste of money. Hopefully others will be able to suggest an amp in the 50-100w range that I can consider.
Regards
Mark - G1INU
Mark - G1INU
Re: What 2.4GHz Amp for QO-100 ??
30W is enough, you just have to manage expectations and use more FEC, even 1/4, or a lower symbol rate.
Mike
Mike
Re: What 2.4GHz Amp for QO-100 ??
Before I took down my QO100 kit (due to a on off house move ) I only used 20W or so at the feed into a 1.2m and had no issues being seen on the Sat. I did only use 1/2 fec but with no loss in quality of my video.
My portable setup only uses 10W into a 70cm and with 1/4 fec I get in with no problem. Both dishes have good profiles, especially the 70cm dish which is an ex broadband uplink dish.
73 John G7JTT
My portable setup only uses 10W into a 70cm and with 1/4 fec I get in with no problem. Both dishes have good profiles, especially the 70cm dish which is an ex broadband uplink dish.
73 John G7JTT
Re: What 2.4GHz Amp for QO-100 ??
I was lucky enough to find a big dish (for free, just dismantle and remove from the emigrating owner's garden as the buyers of his house, strangely but fortuitously, were not enamoured by its presence), so an SG Labs 20w PA is more than sufficient for me.
But earlier, when I had a smaller dish, I looked to James (Jim) G8NTG in Kettering for advice. He modifies commercial amps, often sourced from Poland, and mine worked flawlessly. A really helpful gentleman, he gave accurate, practical advice and a choice of options.
Bear in mind most used commercial PA's are modified to work away from their design frequency so there will be power loss, you're much safer with a BIG amp run very very conservatively than a just big enough one run on the cusp of distortion, and needing massive amounts of cooling as most of the input energy goes to waste in heat...IMHO.
PE1RKI (I think that's his call sign) makes a few dedicated QO100 amps, they look good physically and on the band scope, so I am sure he could offer something nice.
I am a race car engineer and race car design starts with the tyres to be used. The whole thing is designed around the tyres you can use on it. Put junk or the wrong tyres on the best race car in the world and the whole car becomes totally blighted by them. I see the aerial in amateur radio as similar to that of tyres in my profession.
A friend getting set up to come on the satellite bought a 1.2 meter dish from some Internet source, brand new, but a quick play with it on my surface table showed it to be a total joke, dimensionally and rigidity wise. My big Andrew dish, after 25 odd years is still true to a couple of millimetres overall and is VERY impressively rigid. Having said that God knows how much a similar new one would cost today.
I have to assume there are dishes and there are dishes...
I also learnt quickly and painfully that unbranded RF connectors and coaxial cables are a minefield, even at HF, let alone microwaves, so I now bite the bullet and go for branded coax, the stuff cell phone mast companies would use, and branded RF connectors. I have wasted days chasing strange faults and losses caused by junk cables and connectors, and learnt the hard way.
N type and C type and 7/16 are my connector go to, and not the temptingly cheap ones off Ebay.... Telegartner, Rosenberger, Huber & Suhner, that sort of stuff, not cheap, but they work properly.
Looking forward to seeing you on the satellite in due course, good luck
Chris 2E0ILY
But earlier, when I had a smaller dish, I looked to James (Jim) G8NTG in Kettering for advice. He modifies commercial amps, often sourced from Poland, and mine worked flawlessly. A really helpful gentleman, he gave accurate, practical advice and a choice of options.
Bear in mind most used commercial PA's are modified to work away from their design frequency so there will be power loss, you're much safer with a BIG amp run very very conservatively than a just big enough one run on the cusp of distortion, and needing massive amounts of cooling as most of the input energy goes to waste in heat...IMHO.
PE1RKI (I think that's his call sign) makes a few dedicated QO100 amps, they look good physically and on the band scope, so I am sure he could offer something nice.
I am a race car engineer and race car design starts with the tyres to be used. The whole thing is designed around the tyres you can use on it. Put junk or the wrong tyres on the best race car in the world and the whole car becomes totally blighted by them. I see the aerial in amateur radio as similar to that of tyres in my profession.
A friend getting set up to come on the satellite bought a 1.2 meter dish from some Internet source, brand new, but a quick play with it on my surface table showed it to be a total joke, dimensionally and rigidity wise. My big Andrew dish, after 25 odd years is still true to a couple of millimetres overall and is VERY impressively rigid. Having said that God knows how much a similar new one would cost today.
I have to assume there are dishes and there are dishes...
I also learnt quickly and painfully that unbranded RF connectors and coaxial cables are a minefield, even at HF, let alone microwaves, so I now bite the bullet and go for branded coax, the stuff cell phone mast companies would use, and branded RF connectors. I have wasted days chasing strange faults and losses caused by junk cables and connectors, and learnt the hard way.
N type and C type and 7/16 are my connector go to, and not the temptingly cheap ones off Ebay.... Telegartner, Rosenberger, Huber & Suhner, that sort of stuff, not cheap, but they work properly.
Looking forward to seeing you on the satellite in due course, good luck
Chris 2E0ILY
Re: What 2.4GHz Amp for QO-100 ??
Mark,
When communicating via QO-100, the first thing to take care of after optimising your antenna system design, is antenna pointing. You can easily lose effective uplink power by off-pointing, meaning that you need more HPA power on the uplink and degrade signal level and hence carrier/noise (MER) on the downlink. Remember that ultimately it is the MER that counts.
For antenna pointing, the Portsdown Bandviewer function works well on the narrow band transponder to 'find' the satellite. After this, the Wideband Beacon monitor can be used to optimise the pointing. I expect to get to within 0.5dB of that achievable on the downlink. Thereafter, the uplink pointing should also be automatically optimised. Make sure that the antenna is on a sturdy mount and check the pointing every now and again in case wind, subsidence etc alters things. Don't be fooled though by foliage changes between winter and summer, this can increase loss/add noise to degrade the MER if in/near the line of sight.
The larger the dish, in general the more difficult it will be to point accurately. I find 1.2m is a good trade-off. On the WB beacon I regularly get MER 10.5dB (and better). When doing tests/comparisons, take into account the 'traffic' through the transponder as more users will lower the received MER.
Experiment with the FEC and symbol rate. For example, going from 2/3 to 1/2 will give about 2dB improvement in MER requirement to achieve reception.
So don't be put off trying by having a lower power HPA but make sure your antenna is pointed well.
I aim to have one or two antennas at CAT24 to have a look at/discuss, so if visiting please have a chat.
73
Jen G4HIZ
When communicating via QO-100, the first thing to take care of after optimising your antenna system design, is antenna pointing. You can easily lose effective uplink power by off-pointing, meaning that you need more HPA power on the uplink and degrade signal level and hence carrier/noise (MER) on the downlink. Remember that ultimately it is the MER that counts.
For antenna pointing, the Portsdown Bandviewer function works well on the narrow band transponder to 'find' the satellite. After this, the Wideband Beacon monitor can be used to optimise the pointing. I expect to get to within 0.5dB of that achievable on the downlink. Thereafter, the uplink pointing should also be automatically optimised. Make sure that the antenna is on a sturdy mount and check the pointing every now and again in case wind, subsidence etc alters things. Don't be fooled though by foliage changes between winter and summer, this can increase loss/add noise to degrade the MER if in/near the line of sight.
The larger the dish, in general the more difficult it will be to point accurately. I find 1.2m is a good trade-off. On the WB beacon I regularly get MER 10.5dB (and better). When doing tests/comparisons, take into account the 'traffic' through the transponder as more users will lower the received MER.
Experiment with the FEC and symbol rate. For example, going from 2/3 to 1/2 will give about 2dB improvement in MER requirement to achieve reception.
So don't be put off trying by having a lower power HPA but make sure your antenna is pointed well.
I aim to have one or two antennas at CAT24 to have a look at/discuss, so if visiting please have a chat.
73
Jen G4HIZ
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Re: What 2.4GHz Amp for QO-100 ??
Adding to what Jen says above, I'll have my steerable dish up and running, you would be welcome to have a play with 'aiming' it to get a feel for what sort of movement is required. My dish is a 1.1x1.0 which when correctly set on an empty WB can just about hit 10dB on the Portsdown MER-Meter.
Gareth
Gareth
Re: What 2.4GHz Amp for QO-100 ??
Hi Jen,g4hiz wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 7:30 am
The larger the dish, in general the more difficult it will be to point accurately. I find 1.2m is a good trade-off. On the WB beacon I regularly get MER 10.5dB (and better). When doing tests/comparisons, take into account the 'traffic' through the transponder as more users will lower the received MER.
73
Jen G4HIZ
Just for clarity, I use a 90cm dish for RX and a 1.2m dish for TX so I have not used the beacon MER in the Portsdown 4 to optimise the 1.2m dish but I do have a bullseye LNB on the 1.2m dish as I use also use that dish for tx/rx of qo-100 on voice so I could make up a patch lead from the 1.2m dish to the Portsdown coax and optimise the dish using the beacon MER I suppose.
Can you confirm that the "Beacon MER' screen on the Portsdown 4 will actually show 10.5 ? I ask because I am getting 8.9 on the beacon MER using the 90cm dish it is connected to but as the 8 is up against the left side of the screen I assumed it only displayed up to 9.9?
Regards
Mark - G1INU
Mark - G1INU