IARU region 1 ATV contest - rule changes?

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M5TXJ
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Re: IARU region 1 ATV contest - rule changes?

Post by M5TXJ » Sat Jun 26, 2021 12:56 pm

Hi Dave,

Just use your credit/debit card PIN's... :D :lol:
73 T'other Dave
...are you sure I can't use a pair of 813's?... :shock:

g0mjw
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Re: IARU region 1 ATV contest - rule changes?

Post by g0mjw » Sat Jun 26, 2021 2:00 pm

G4FRE wrote:
Sat Jun 26, 2021 12:24 pm
I spent more time coming up with 32 allowable contest numbers than i did transmitting!

Dave
G4fre

radiogareth wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 2:03 pm
Good idea David. I'm sure I spent more time connecting/disconnecting stuff than actually RX/TX...
Gareth
I am surprised you have not written an app to generate the numbers Dave

G8GKQ
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Re: IARU region 1 ATV contest - rule changes?

Post by G8GKQ » Sat Jun 26, 2021 2:08 pm

That would be the DATV Version of FT-8

Dave

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PA3CRX
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Re: IARU region 1 ATV contest - rule changes?

Post by PA3CRX » Sat Jul 10, 2021 5:54 pm

Solutions for problems that do not exist are a waste of time and could result in the opposite what we want: more activity!

So the first thing is to identify what is considered as the ‘problem’.

“Rover stations (only a few every ATV contest) do not have much time for contacts caused by travel time”.
I do not see the relation with the proposed solution to split the contest with fewer bands.

Some comments (other ‘problems’?) include:
- not much activity in the region so it is not fair to compare with other stations that operate on more bands.
- Big workload for a lone operator to operate on many bands, switching all the time.
- Band swapping is so time consuming it will leave other potential contacts frustrated when they can’t get a look in. Leads to apathy and consequently less activity.
- Microwave contacts should not give an undue advantage.
- Stations on mountains with few microwave bands ranking up unassailable scores.
- Defining many allowable contest numbers consumes a lot of time.

Proposed solutions:
- separate the IARU contest in two: one covers 23cm, 70cm and 6cm; the other 13cm and above.
- Split IARU contest into 13cm and down and 9cm and up.
- One day the lower bands, the other day the higher bands.
- 70cm only contest.
- Multipliers for different stations worked.

I think the common idea is that there would be more change of working more stations as we would not spread across so many bands.
“This would make life simpler and more enjoyable”.

This depends.
If you have too less stations in your surrounding: stimulate others and take care someone will connect his RTL stick or so to the antenna!
If you have too many stations: be happy!
If switching is time consuming: consider it as a technical challenge. Duplex filters, relays or whatever.

It is a misconception that the goal is: “to demonstrate our use of the bands to justify our presence on them”. In the rules is mentioned as goal: “Stimulation of ATV activity by organizing a yearly international ATV contest.”

Someone is on a mountain, someone has a lot of stations around him, others do have several bands, high antenna’s, better location, better conditions, better builder, more money, you name it.
Keep in mind several countries do not have mountains (or even hills), or do have restrictions related to operate bands, power or whatever.
Is an ATV contest fair, with same changes for everyone to win? No!
Can it be made fair by changing the rules? No!
(For some analyses about band usage and contacts in 2019, please see https://www.iaru-r1.org/wp-content/uplo ... ter_70.pdf )

I remember the latest big change of the IARU contest rules. Time period needed to be made longer (for portable stations) and the weekend in September needed to be changed (it was the same weekend as the IBC). Later I found out that the few involved persons that visited the IBC did no longer visit it at the moment the weekend was changed. I am not sure if they ever joined the IARU ATV contest since then… And about the longer time period; still not many rover stations but I think everyone now sees the benefit of the longer time. Some operators have obligations on Saturday, others on Sunday.

First define and describe the real problem.
Why is it a problem? What could be a solution? Does the solution really solve the problem? What will be the possible negative side affects if the solution is implemented? (Keep in mind IARU contest rule change will take a few years).
During this process, identify if the number of participants will likely increase or decrease. If rules are made more complicated the number will decrease…

In national contests it could already be tested if changing rules brings more participants. BATC added lower bands at the same time the IARU ATV contest is held. Good or worse?

In the IARU ATV contest, scores for all individual bands are published. Up to you what band(s) you want to be active on. For the general ranking likely only operators with more bands could beat the individual band winners. So what!
Having fun is more important then winning. When you participate you could have fun. This should be the base. If you are only in for winning the overall category, then categories should be created for every individual participant, one winner in each category. :roll:

This year you will not find me in the scores. I went portable to a location to see if it was possible to contact one station from that location. The contact failed… Disappointed: yes. Frustrated: no. :D

Just my thoughts,
Chris van den Berg PA3CRX

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PA3CRX
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Re: IARU region 1 ATV contest - rule changes?

Post by PA3CRX » Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:55 pm

Please see also viewtopic.php?f=75&t=4568 for comments made in 2016.

If we do no longer call it a contest but an activity weekend, all issues could be solved (and I wonder if it would result in less participants).
Or what about ATV challenge instead of the word contest?

Best regards,
Chris PA3CRX
Last edited by PA3CRX on Mon Aug 23, 2021 8:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PA3CRX
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Re: IARU region 1 ATV contest - rule changes?

Post by PA3CRX » Tue Aug 17, 2021 2:46 pm

The presentation I made in 2019 contains also information of the way the contest is experienced: relaxed.
I placed this presentation on youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bunq3W_Cdig

It is in the English language (or at least I did my best) :D

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PA3CRX
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Re: IARU region 1 ATV contest - rule changes?

Post by PA3CRX » Fri Sep 01, 2023 8:05 am

I found out that some proposals related to IARU ATV contest rules will be point of discussion in the coming IARU meeting.

Please see the attachments.

Thanks David for being the IARU ATV Contest Manager and bringing this contest to the current level (already seven years since you took it over from me :D )

About the proposals:
Unclear for me why ‘Permissible Modes’ is proposed to be added. I think we should not limit ourselves by mentioning it (in general).

Also for the other proposed changes I would ask myself: “Does it solve an (existing) problem? Does it gain or limit activity?”

Good to see in the RSGB proposal it still mentions as responsibility of the IARU ATV contest manager: “judge logs in time, issue results within six weeks after the contest.”

Chris PA3CRX
Attachments
Proposed rule changes by RSGB.pdf
(716.69 KiB) Downloaded 132 times
Proposed rule changes by ARI.pdf
(645.03 KiB) Downloaded 132 times
proposed new rules by RSGB.pdf
(890.26 KiB) Downloaded 134 times

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