Digilite and H264 work well together!

F6DZP
Posts: 217
Joined: Fri May 27, 2011 9:59 am

Digilite and H264 work well together!

Post by F6DZP » Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:20 am

This morning I'm testing my DV camera with H264 coder sent to Digilite
H264 coding is made with a graph and sent to Digilite via UDP for test.

It works without problem. I receive the 1255Mhz on my PC using Tutioune0.9a and TiouneVideo_V05e that can work in H264 mode.
pictures are sent this morning to my TiouneMonitor #2:http://www.vivadatv.org/tutioune.php?om ... ation_id=2

I will test also to work in HD mode (1280x720) from HDV firewire output or 1920x1080 with HDMI output.
If I succeed, pictures reduced with original format will be indicated on my TiouneMonitor

H264 is used by standard DVB broadcaster for HD, but H264 is a real great solution for DATV when you are on 437 Mhz using 1000 kS
(H264 is also use by Youtube ...)

I have already tested H264 to work DATV set at 600 or 800kS and result is good.

H264 is about 2.5 more efficient than Mpeg2.


Jean Pierre F6DZP

Yes I know that there are many questions about graph and filter. It will take many time to answer.
As I need to prepare a demonstration for next Saturday with Tutioune/Digilite I 'm not sure to have time this week to answer all questions.
Many answers are already written on my forum, but often in French, sometimes in English :
http://www.vivadatv.org/viewforum.php?f=27

I will do all I can ASAP.

w0fms
Posts: 23
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:46 pm

Re: Digilite and H264 work well together!

Post by w0fms » Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:50 pm

Good work there. Please take the time to document this. I think one of the aspects of this project as it relates to ham television is the potential for bandwidth reduction and the benefits that will create for the ham user. H.264 is more than 1/2 of the way to good bandwidth reduction. (I'd like to see DVB-S2 eventually, too, but I certainly don't have the time to work on it.)

Fred W0FMS

F6DZP
Posts: 217
Joined: Fri May 27, 2011 9:59 am

Re: Digilite and H264 work well together!

Post by F6DZP » Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:34 pm

Yes H264 is the coding solution we need to go if we want to use less bandwidth for same video quality.
As far as I have tested, H264 is about 2.5 more efficient than Mpeg2.
I have tested H264 -SR 800 (800 kS, less than SR 1000) and we can obtain a correct moving video as we can have with SR2000 -Mpeg2
(sending a fix TV pattern cannot be used in DATV as If we do, we can't know if picture freeze or not)

h264 SR4000 allow to go up to 720p HD.

So this is the target, but several problems must be surmounted:

1-the need of H264 decoder in the receiver.
-It's not a problem if we use a PC, just to install H264 decoder if you don't already have it.
but for people that use a SetTop Box , they must use a DVB-S2 setTop box to be sure to have the h264 decoder inside.
I can transmit H264 to my friends near Poitiers, but very few are able to decode it.
As long as majority of OM continue to use DVB-S setTop boxes, it's difficult to think firstly H264...

2- the need of CPU power if we want to code H264 by software ( look at my %CPU with my Q9550) + the need to have/buy the H264 coder Directshow filter
or
the need to buy some hardware coder like Hauppauge HDPVR (USB) or Colossus (PCI-E)

3- the need to have a software to mux the H264 and video data in a TS sent to Digilite Transmit via UDP (I have not tested, but I suppose File method doesn't work)
or
the need to create your own graph to do the job, but not all OM enjoy to do it.

I think all 3 points can be overcome and we can work together to do it.

By my side, I use Tutioune for receiving H264 and any picture format.

For live H264 coding I have tried for the moment 2 solutions:

- Hauppauge HDPVR for coding and a graph to create the Ts ans send it to Digilite transmit.
with this method I have a very low CPU % of use, but for the moment I have not succeeded to prevent regular resync . I don't know for the moment if it come from my graph setup or from some problems inherent to HDPVR

- all H264 coding, mux and sent made by software, using a Graph. That works very well. My preferred solution.But I use some professional filters that are not free.

So
1) we can search for free codec and test them with graph.
2) some OM or a team can develop the software that allow any OM to use it in a userfriendly mode.

I intend to develop one,it seems clear in my head how to do that, but I have many things to develop and just have 24h/day.
And it will be a better project if it is a collaboration..

Jean Pierre F6DZP
(sorry, I have perhaps used bad words, my English is really not perfect..)

M0DTS
Posts: 430
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2008 9:03 pm

Re: Digilite and H264 work well together!

Post by M0DTS » Thu Apr 19, 2012 6:35 pm

Hi Jean Pierre,

A quick question, i have found a mainconcept reference demo from some years ago on my computer and it had the enocder/decoder in the software.
Now when i come to look for the encoder in DirectShow filters it is not there? only decoders are seen.. any ideas why?
All the mainconcept filters are seen below in the screen grab.

One thing that may not help is that i'm using Win7 64bit, i find graphedit difficult in 64bit version because all the settings/features are not seen like in xp etc..

Are you using XP?

Thanks for any advice.

Rob
M0DTS
Attachments
mcreference filters.jpg
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F6DZP
Posts: 217
Joined: Fri May 27, 2011 9:59 am

Re: Digilite and H264 work well together!

Post by F6DZP » Fri Apr 20, 2012 5:31 am

All my computers run under Win XP SP3 , only one has also Win7-32 bits with a double boot.
All tests I have made with Digilite were under Win XP.

"One thing that may not help is that i'm using Win7 64bit, i find graphedit difficult in 64bit version because all the settings/features are not seen like in xp etc.."

The settings/features are seen if you have registered proppage.dll
It is proppage.dll that allow settings/feature to be seen and there is different versions of proppage.dll, depending Microsoft SDK installed
Even under Win XP, if you don't have the good version, settings/feature possibilities will not be there.

Under Win7-64bits you will have to run sometimes 32 bits filters, sometimes 64 bits filters. so you need to register both versions of proppage.dll
( GraphStudio does exist also in 2 versions, one version seeing 32 bits filters, other version seeing 64 bits filters - download herehttp://dev.monogram.sk/websvn/listing.p ... trunk_bin_ )

Under Win7-64bits there are also 2 versions of regsvr32, one in /System32 the other in SysWow64

To install proppage.dll under Win7-64bits.
download and install Windows SDK (SDKSetup Version 7.x.x.x)
run the command "regsvr32.exe C:\Program Files\Microsoft SDKs\Windows\v7.0\Bin\proppage.dll" for 32 bits filters
run the command "regsvr32.exe C:\Program Files\Microsoft SDKs\Windows\v7.0\Bin\x64\proppage.dll" for 64 filters

I have not tested yet, I will try ASAP on my wife's laptop that run Win7-64 bits.

Jean Pierre F6DZP

M0DTS
Posts: 430
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2008 9:03 pm

Re: Digilite and H264 work well together!

Post by M0DTS » Fri Apr 20, 2012 2:06 pm

Thanks, that is interesting..

Unfortunately it does not give me any better options, very few 64bit filters exist on my system and probably quite new technology?
All the filters i see in 32bit are the same as before.

So.. I downloaded the Elecard Encoder trial (Elecard_Codec_SDK_G4_Eval) and installed their codecs, this was a pain as they do not register the filters automatically!.
i'm now working on a graph... First i will try to make the graph from a video.mts file then to eventually get a HDMI capture device to get live video or a seperate camera as a second choice if this works.
Elecard installs a demo encoder program which you can click 'view graph' to help you out when making your own.

fingers crossed, but the 1080p input file from the HD camcorder maybe too much for my pc to handle!!!

Rob
M0DTS

M0DTS
Posts: 430
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2008 9:03 pm

Re: Digilite and H264 work well together!

Post by M0DTS » Fri Apr 20, 2012 5:15 pm

A little update..

My PC is probably too slow, Intel E2200 dual core 2.2Ghz.
Just to decode and render the 1080p HD video takes 85% cpu with the elecard filters with all the tests done so far, so encoding this is not going to be possible.

If i try to re-encode a PVR-150 saved file back again to MPEG2 for example i get about 1/2 speed encoding so it's way too slow, maybe other codecs are much faster but i doubt that.

I will have to re-think this a little...!

Rob
M0DTS

F6DZP
Posts: 217
Joined: Fri May 27, 2011 9:59 am

Re: Digilite and H264 work well together!

Post by F6DZP » Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:21 pm

If you look at my results here: http://www.batc.org.uk/forum/viewtopic. ... 6&start=16 you will see that with a dual core at 2.4ghz I can code a TS with Mpeg2 in 720x576 mode.
I think your PC can do or perhaps reach just its limits.
For decoding Mpeg2 or H264 by software, a little CPU can be enough if you have the good GPU to help the job.
With a very little processor Atom525 which has GPU inside that is efficient for video decoding, I can decode Mpeg2 and H264 in full HD 1980x1080p without any problem, I can get a very fluid video. ( the complete little motherboard GA-D525TUD with the CPU/GPU atom525 just cost about 60 or 70£. I use it for the Tiounebox and it give me all the power I need for Tutioune with video up to 1920x1080p - H264 decoding. )
For a classic Dual Core or Pentium, having the good graphic card is the solution. The "good graphic" card doesn't mean an expensive card with a strong GPU for video game, that means a graphic card that has GPU with mpeg2/H264 facilities inside. Build a computer for Home Cinema and a build a computer for video games is very different.
We can find more easily information about GPU power for video-games than for video decoding/encoding. Some graphic cards not very expensive are much powerfull for video than big-expensive graphic cards for video games.
So the association of CPU and GPU is important.
And each graphic card has not the same result with this decoder or this decoder.
When I get a new computer or graphic card, I test all the decoder filters I own and the best decoder is not always the same. It depends of the GPU.
For Win7 users the Windows mpeg2 decoder is very often the best. But with XP, there is no Mpeg2 decoder given with it. We must have installed one decoder ( or a dozen..), so choosing the best for our own configuration is the first job to do.
I have spent many hours to compare also the codec, the pictures rendering characteristics can be very different from one to another and they also depend of the GPU.
About GPU and video-rendering we can talk also during many hours. Home cinema fanatics know that very well.

For encoding H264, some technologies like CUDA allow to add GPU power to CPU power. With my quad core Q9550 I can encode live video in 1280x720 with 85% CPU and 1440x1080 with 95% CPU.
If I want to go farther, I need to use CUDA ( Mainconcept has a H246 coder filter with CUDA mode) and a graphic card that has these possibilities.
If you have only a Dual Core 1080p H264 is not possible. Mpeg2 is not a solution for 1080 lines that it will need bigger Mbps and a very great SR we don't use in DATV

when you "re-encode a PVR-150 saved file back again to MPEG2 " you do two jobs : demux&decode Mpeg2 and encode/remux Mpeg2 and if your GPU doesn't help your CPU for decoding you increase the power you ask to your CPU.
if you work with a live RGB video signal you have just to encode/remux.
Jean Pierre F6DZP

M0DTS
Posts: 430
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2008 9:03 pm

Re: Digilite and H264 work well together!

Post by M0DTS » Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:19 pm

Thanks for that reply, most informative.. the GPU is probably quite poor like you say.. Nvidea Geforce7300 if i remember correctly.

Anyway i have managed to get something working better now playing with different decoders, i can now encode MPEG2 and MPEG4 'offline' from my HD camera to file at close to full speed.
This plays back perfectly with vlc but probably not the correct settings for digilite Program Stream...
I get a decoded picture on my receiver but very broken, digilite transmit is happy with the stream but the pad value reads much higher than anticipated.

Maybe elecard Mpeg encoder is not up to the job, i have not found any mainconcept encoder graph yet but still looking, only the dll with Mainconcept Reference.

These are the settings i have made within filters:
MPEG-2 encoder for CBR at 4000kbps, all other encoder setting default
MPEG mux is set for program stream - others default
Elecard File sink set to program stream format.

Graph is attached below.

I appreciate your time to help me out..hi


Rob
M0DTS
Attachments
graph_m0dts.jpg
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M0DTS
Posts: 430
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Re: Digilite and H264 work well together!

Post by M0DTS » Sun Apr 22, 2012 6:32 pm

I did some more testing and have a working graph from file.

It takes HD AVC video from camera file and converts to MPEG-2 program stream, quality is good (with low movement) at 1920x1080... a bit too much for 5Mbs!
Receiver is using a Comag SL100HD receiver.

The problem i had was with the Elecard Muxer, i think that is does not output 2048byte chunk of data to digilite tx. I swapped to Cyberlink muxer and it works fine.

Graph attached below.

Next question, how do i make a h.264 program stream for the digilite, the MP4 muxers i have seen just make a 'stream', not program stream....

I have made good progress and i now have to improve my PC to try this in real time!!


Rob
M0DTS
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graph_m0dts_2.jpg
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