Portsdown 4 Repeater TX and Stream

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G8PUO
Posts: 43
Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2014 3:07 am

Portsdown 4 Repeater TX and Stream

Post by G8PUO » Wed Feb 02, 2022 6:52 pm

Hi,

Understand that I can use the Portsdown 4 to control a Lime or Pluto for a repeater TX, or Stream to BATC. However, I cannot find any info if it actually possible, or not, to output to SDR and stream from the same Raspberry.

Any thoughts would be appreciated as the FW repeater site is run from solar/wind and if I can reduce a Pi, then that's good!

Dave
G8PUO http://g8puo.com
HAMKit http://hamkit.co.uk
RILGES Repeater Group http://rilges.org.uk
SCART Television Group http://scartgroup.co.uk

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G3GJA
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Re: Portsdown 4 Repeater TX and Stream

Post by G3GJA » Wed Feb 02, 2022 7:04 pm

Hi Dave

You need a Portsdown for each function, so EY has one for a Ryde and one for streaming for example. It also applies for transmit.

You can stream and simultaneously drive a Pluto on transmit if you use one of the Chinese H264/H265 encoder boxes and the F5OEO Pluto firmware. I've received a new Pluto today and will be trying that dual function as part of an upgrade for EY.

Cheers

Clive

Pa3fbx
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Re: Portsdown 4 Repeater TX and Stream

Post by Pa3fbx » Thu Feb 03, 2022 2:00 am

I am actually using that last function for 6 month now on Pi6MEP.
I Use a HDMI quad to switch several DATV and analog receivers.
The output is split to and HDMI/analog converter for analog 13cm 2352 MhzTX
The other split is going to an Link-Pi (witch is a linux driven box controllable via a browser).
The Link-pi makes several streamS.
1. 500ks udp to a Pluto on 13cm 2344Mhz DVB S2 H265.
2. 1000Ks RTMP to twitch.tv/pi6mep.
3. 1000Ks rtmp to the Batc streamer...

I use 2x RPI4 for 70cm datv ryde and 23cm datv ryde and 1x RPi3 for station ID and test images (screen saver with 4k foto's) and also using Node-red for repeater control and monitoring..

So basically 4 rpi's , 1 hdmi quad, 2 hdmi splitter, 7 hdmi switches, 2 compvid to hdmi convertors, 1 hdmi to compvid. and 18 HDMi cables and some extra electronics to connect everything..

The benefit of this all is that i can control almost everything remotely via an internet browser.

The lot is running on 5 and 12 volt and pulls approx 60 watt... (12 amps supply)

Best regards
Benno, PA3FBX

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G8PUO
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Re: Portsdown 4 Repeater TX and Stream

Post by G8PUO » Thu Feb 03, 2022 6:57 am

Many thanks Clive and Benno,

The current topology is based on separate Pi for streaming and Logic matrix control, another Pi for the Lime (however I have just ordered a Pluto too).

Agree with Benno, the ability to control each remotely and more importantly for a remote site, if one part fails, the system hopefully carry's on.

Regarding Lime or Pluto, the latter appears to be the preferred Portsdown option although both are supported. It is an electrical power balance on a totally solar/wind powered site, to get system flexibility but enough grunt in the darker days. We shall see once the full power table is ready and can always introduce timers.

That said, Clive's comment about the Chinese H264/H265 encoder boxes and the F5OEO Pluto firmware is definitely worth investigation too. Will try find further details and ponder. Ideally want to get running in next couple weeks so guess an encoder delivery could be the thorn here. If you have any links, would be appreciated. Would be good to get current consumption from both when full tilt mode, can then compare with Pi/Pluto. As the site will also be composite video driven, hopefully the encoders have analogue in and not expect HDMI / convertors.

The reason for coincidentally ordering the Pluto was that I am still awaiting more limes from Mouser (had to borrow my Oscar one for time being), as supply has been an issue, where the Plutos are available. Makes sense to sense to use this. Will also compare power consumption between Lime and Pluto but guess they are going to be around the same.
G8PUO http://g8puo.com
HAMKit http://hamkit.co.uk
RILGES Repeater Group http://rilges.org.uk
SCART Television Group http://scartgroup.co.uk

g8gtz
Posts: 1733
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 6:26 pm

Re: Portsdown 4 Repeater TX and Stream

Post by g8gtz » Thu Feb 03, 2022 10:52 am

Hi Dave,

Glad to hear you are making progress with GB3FW - be good to get another TV repeater on in the South!

As you plan the system don't forget we are currently developing the BATC repeater controller which will be a flexible repeater logic and image generator designed primarily to drive HDMI switchers but capable of driving any switcher via Infra Red or GPIO pins - we hope to release it in the next CQ-TV and more details are here:
https://wiki.batc.org.uk/Repeater_Controller
viewtopic.php?f=82&t=7750

I am currently integrating this into the GB3HV Mk3 which will be installed at our new site in Medstead and I am experimenting with the Chinese encoder box which gives very impressive video on the streamer and will also drive an ITPS input on Portsdown or F5OEO on its 2nd output.

The major issue I'm having at the moment is the encoder does not like glitches on the HDMI stream and even "seamless" switchers are not! I have got around this by running 2 seamless switchers in series with the second switch purely acting as a buffer. That seems to work well but means we could end up with 3 switchers to get the number of inputs we want to switch - the BATC controller will drive 2 separate IR senders to allow multiple input switching.

The other neat feature of the Chinese box is that it will accept analogue audio in alongside HDMI video plus the 2nd HDMI switcher has an anlogue audio output. This will enable us to insert the 144.740 audio onto the repeater output - I am currently testing the configuration and it seems to work well but need to check audio channel separation etc....

All very interesting to experiment with and we may well be seeing the end of the yellow phono plug!!

BTW Benno - what is the Link PI????
Link-Pi (witch is a linux driven box controllable via a browser).
73

Noel - G8GTZ

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G3GJA
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Re: Portsdown 4 Repeater TX and Stream

Post by G3GJA » Thu Feb 03, 2022 11:03 am

Dave

The Pluto has a significant advantage over the Lime Mini for repeaters; the noise floor is at least 10dB lower.

Clive G3GJA

Pa3fbx
Posts: 178
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2020 1:08 pm

Re: Portsdown 4 Repeater TX and Stream

Post by Pa3fbx » Thu Feb 03, 2022 3:11 pm

Hi guys..
Great to exchange experiences as these specials seems to be invented individually.

On the HDMI switching: yes me to had a number of HDMI quads before i found one whitch seems to work. The down side of mine now is the controll via so i ended up mounting the remote control with a number of tll11 to puhs the right buttons...
I had used 4 other quads before but indeed seamless is never seamless, and some of the just fell over during the day..

For the Link-pi life become much easier when i discovered these..
https://linkpi.cn/archives/132
You can find the on alliexpress for around 100 euro.
I have 2 pieces running 24/7 for over 6 month now...
The remote one needs sometimes an reboot if the wireless internet link is disrupted...

Its easy configurable via any browser and takes HDMI in and out and select able separate jack audio in and out...
No comp video unfortunately but a compvid to HDMI converter cost only 5 euro's..

Image

This is an older images but tells the story..
Looking forward to updates..
\
73es Benno PA3FBX

G7VVF
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Re: Portsdown 4 Repeater TX and Stream

Post by G7VVF » Fri Apr 08, 2022 2:36 pm

I have a question.
Can the "Chinese encoder" drive a Portsdown /LimeminiUSB combo or is it only a Pluto that can be used with the Chinese encoder?

I want to upgrade GB3EN to digital. Initially it might just be the transmitter that get upgraded and I was planning on using a LimeminiUSB, however to future proof it I may need a Pluto instead so that it can work with the BATC HDMI repeater project.

I would like it to transmit H265 as well as I have now found that there is a cheap consumer sat RX that will happily receive 1msys H265, which means that any old school analogue repeater users will be able to receive the digital signal for very little cost.

thanks
Duncan

g8gtz
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Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 6:26 pm

Re: Portsdown 4 Repeater TX and Stream

Post by g8gtz » Fri Apr 08, 2022 4:25 pm

Hi Duncan,

I'm in the middle of battling with this one for GB3HV.

The Chinese encoder box does not produce a constant bit rate stream, even in CBR mode, which is fine for the stream but not for Tx and the P'down / Lime seems more critical than the Pluto.

I tried the P'down IPTS in but just could not get it to be stable so am now testing the Pluto - I'm running it at 1ms which should be ~ 1.3 Mbp/s but I'm having to run it down at 800 kbp/s so the peaks do not crash the encoder and it looks quite good.

Not tried H265 - yet....

Rob runs 2 streams on KM so I think it's just a question of getting the right settings...

Noel

G7VVF
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Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:11 am

Re: Portsdown 4 Repeater TX and Stream

Post by G7VVF » Sat Apr 09, 2022 10:08 am

Thanks Noel,

Changing repeaters to digital is the obvious step to take, its the best way to involve new ATVers with the repeaters, after all they won't be building or sourcing analogue receivers. However at the same time we mustn't alienate the existing users of analogue repeaters.

Its easy enough to maintain the analogue-in facility at repeaters running alongside digital-in but we can't expect the analogue users to construct and pay for a Mini-tuner or Ryde to make sure they can still receive their repeater when it turns digital. Therefore I think the DATV transmission spec of a repeater should be a minimum 1mS/s H264 or 265, this way cheap consumer satellite receivers can be used so that the analogue users can continue to receive their repeaters.

Hopefully when they receive the the better quality pictures from the repeater they will be encouraged get involved with the digital side of ATV.
If though a transmission spec of lower than 1mS/s is used these analogue users will be cut off and never make the jump to DATV.

After reading about your experimenting perhaps the Chinese encoder boxes aren't the way to go. There seems to be a lot of variables at the moment and I don't know which route is the best to take. I realise this is an on going project and some more experimenting is needed before a workable solution is found...all very interesting and exciting stuff, you and Dave are doing a great job!

Perhaps Rob can update this thread with what is working for him at KM.

Duncan
G7VVF

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