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What happens to Flash at the end of 2020?

Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 8:26 am
by g8gtz
There is starting to be rumours flying around about the demise of Flash at the end of 2020, so for clarification:

Flash has not been abolished (to use a term seen on Facebook recently!) all that happens at the end of the year is that browers (Firefox etc) will no longer support flash and you will not be able to use them to be able to watch Flash streams - just like Chrome today.

However, encoders will still generate Flash, our servers will still accept it and you will be able to use VLC, Portsdown and other devices to watch it.

All our stream users can today select to use HTML5 simply by ticking a box on their member's dashboard - this will enable the stream to be viewed on any platform but with a significantly longer delay.

However, we are making plans to integrate another low delay codec in the near future. For more info make sure you watch Phil M0DNY's talk at CAT20 next weekend. viewtopic.php?f=128&t=6973

Re: What happens to Flash at the end of 2020?

Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:00 am
by G8GKQ
Well said Noel

I would add that if a stream owner selects his stream as HTML5 on their "BATC member's dashboard webpage", the stream remains available as a flash stream as well, so users with VLC or Portsdowns can continue to receive low-latency streams whilst those using non-flash-capable viewing systems will see the slightly delayed HTML5 stream.

Dave

Re: What happens to Flash at the end of 2020?

Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 10:37 am
by DL5BCA
Hi Noel,

Does you already know when the streaming site https://batc.org.uk/live/ will be switched?

73 and merry christmas.

Re: What happens to Flash at the end of 2020?

Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 11:12 am
by M0SKM
Hi,
From the Adobe website.
Adobe Flash Player EOL General Information Page


Since Adobe will no longer be supporting Flash Player after 31 December 2020 and Adobe will block Flash content from running in Flash Player beginning 12 January 2021, Adobe strongly recommends all users immediately uninstall Flash Player to help protect their systems.

Some users may continue to see reminders from Adobe to uninstall Flash Player from their system. See below for more details on how to uninstall Flash Player.

Apparently it will be disabled via a Microsoft update.

73 Steve

Re: What happens to Flash at the end of 2020?

Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 11:31 am
by g0mjw
It's going to be a big problem I think. Fine if you have newer hardware and software. Not so fine if you were still relying on flash and have not yet got a viable alternative. Hopefully we have an alternative but not everyone will have.

The fear is that immediately after they try to stop it, someone will produce a hack based on an unsupported and non-updated version of flash. Even worse hackers will prey on the vulnerable looking for a solution to their non-working services. All to allow the world to continue spinning despite Microsoft and Adobe trying to stop it. Meanwhile it would appear you had better completely disable windows updates if you want to continue to use flash.

It's hard to just stop something like flash that is so embedded and break billions of older devices (not just PCs, TVs, older phones, tablets, industrial systems, point of sale system, test equipment, airliner, whatever) and not then expect to have that policy undermined (and security even more compromised) by people trying to recover an unrecoverable situation. This is why people are still running XP, still running Windows 7. Very dangerous to update a live critical system that works to a new OS, just ask BA. It is very expensive to throw away that Agilent test gear running embedded windows XP. [For us it is simple, just don't connect it to a network. For industry much more costly].

Re: What happens to Flash at the end of 2020?

Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 11:53 am
by G8GKQ
The BATC Streamer will continue to provide a choice of "Flash" or "HTML5 with Flash available" until we have developed a suitable alternative. Even if Flash were to be abolished on 1 Jan 2021 (which it won't be - it is just that the major browsers won't support it), the BATC Streamer would continue to function, albeit with a longer delay using HTML5.

Phil M0DNY is working on a low-latency replacement for Flash on the BATC Streamer, but this is not easy. Please watch his CAT 20 presentation here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Uql4aQse1k for a full explanation.

Dave, G8GKQ

Re: What happens to Flash at the end of 2020?

Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 12:08 pm
by g0mjw
Is there no option to stream a DVB transport stream, like we do when we send from minitiouner to VLC?

Re: What happens to Flash at the end of 2020?

Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 12:19 pm
by G8GKQ
Mike

How would you propose to enable the DVB Transport Stream to be viewed in a browsers such as Chrome, FireFox, Edge, Safari and Opera?

There are 2 major challenges that we face in developing a replacement: finding a server for the chosen protocol that is within our budget and can work with our permissions model; and finding a low-latency protocol that is supported by all the browsers above and mobile devices.

Dave

Re: What happens to Flash at the end of 2020?

Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 12:27 pm
by g0mjw
I just asked it if were possible. It might require VLC, a browser plugin or similar to view. If we could do that it could eliminate the need for any trans-coding. I agree it's not easy. If I did know I am sure I could make a fortune selling it on to all the commercial providers in a similar situation.

Mike

Re: What happens to Flash at the end of 2020?

Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:46 am
by DL5BCA
Hi there,

I asked because in the lecture during CAT20 I felt that development was already going on.
I didn't know it wasn't ready yet.

73 Merry Christmas