Replacing the MiniTiouner

[G8GKQ]

Now that stocks of the Serit FTS-4334 tuner are exhausted, we are looking for ways to provide a replacement DATV Receive capability. Some initial research has been done, and resulted in the discussion paper attached.

We would really appreciate your comments on the best way forward.

- What do you think is the most promising approach?
- Have I missed any options?
- Have you tried something that worked or did not work?

Please provide your comments in this topic - preferably before the BATC Online Convention (CAT 23 Part 2) on Saturday 21 October.

Thanks

Dave G8GKQ

[SkyVision]

SDR Angel is tricky to set up first time, but worked great in our 6M tests
The beauty of SDR Angel is you can use a wide range of devices, it even worked with a cheap SDR dongle: low cost entry level
It outputs a nice stream that can be played by VLC, waterfall there to help tune, it's all open source, just needs DVB-T
"DATV Angel" Basic and Expert mode would be good, need some preset buttons, would Edouard help if he was asked nicely

This solution is available today, most have a PC and a RTL dongle/airspy/Pluto/Lime etc, try it
https://wiki.batc.org.uk/images/6/6e/Ha ... rangel.pdf
Ok for portable if you have a laptop
Has anyone tested Minitiouner against SDR Angel side by side to see if it's better in anyway

Cheers Roger VK5YYY

[i2NDT]

I am not a software or hardware expert...so the following is based only on a reasoned evaluation of the options.

I discard opt 1 and 2 as based on hardware whose availability and life span is uncertain.

I second opt. 3 for SDR such as Pluto and LimeSDR Mini (as a starting point) with an FPGA. the suggested FPGA “hat” looks very interesting (but subject to availability...). this option could allow PD4 user to upgrade with minimal effort (£$€???) and maintain the portability of the equipment.

opt. 4 is also very interesting if the developers of the software (leanDVB, SDRangel and DVBS.GUI) are willing to cooperate. moreover the software can be used by all DATVers.

i2NDT Claudio

[dh2va]

Without being able to offer a simple answer I would support the FPGA solution. As long as the HDL code is open sourced, this would enable porting and future development even when the current generation FPGA will be obsolete. Unfortunately, I do not have FPGA knowledge myself (and I am trying hard to correct this) but the ADALM-Pluto and the developments around it show that this approach opens the field for further experiments. Here at work, we have similar plans to design a generic data acquisition board where the ADC frontend can be exchanged according to the user's requirements but the backend would be Gigabit Ethernet plus White Rabbit (https://ohwr.org/project/white-rabbit/wikis/home) for accurate timing. The latter being completely irrelevant for BATC

Now we need an FPGA coder..

73s Achim DH2VA

[pu2rqv]

The FPGA solution that I am trying to develop for now only accepts high end FPGAs because the FPGA resource utilization for each receiver is very high. Just to give you an idea, it uses more or less 80,000 LUTs for each receiver. The HAT solution for Raspberry only has 6864 LUTs (of course the Xilinx and Lattice architectures are different but it serves as a basis for comparison).
The development I am doing uses the MATLAB platform with several add on modules such as HDL Coder. I am currently using a Student license but I believe I cannot distribute the source code without first purchasing all the necessary modules (which could cost a small fortune). One solution that Mike G0MJW suggested would be for amateur radio operators to try to negotiate with Mathworks for a lower price or if we were supported by a university that would give us access to Matlab modules.
Don't worry about developing the LDPC because there is already a ready-made pre-development that we can use in MATLAB called DVB-S2 HDL Receiver.
https://www.mathworks.com/help/satcom/u ... eiver.html
To do this, we will need to acquire or gain access to the following modules at a friendly university:
HDL Coder
Wireless HDL Toolbox
Satellite Communication Toolbox
Simulink
After using these modules, there is still the development of adaptation for multiple SR rates and input filters and agc and configuration of the ad9361, etc.
If we can gain access to MATLAB and publish the source codes, this would open up a huge field of research for the entire Amateur Radio community around the world because the project could grow to multiple areas of transmission and reception (such as OFDM, etc.).
I have available 2 complete kits of ZC706 boards from Xilinx with the AD9361 module from Analog Devices that I can donate to those interested in developing. We could create a virtual machine to access Matlab and several people could test the development on this local hardware.

PU2RQV Roque

[PE5PVB]

It seems that the STV0910 is still in production. So a custom tuner design should be a good idea.
You can also try to move to FPGA and process the RF signal directly. Only issue can be with several legal licenses.

With a STV0910 or look-a-like it will still be possible to build your own tuner, but when using a FPGA, what's left to build?

[G8GKQ]

Hi Sjef

Do you know of a source for the STV0910 (or the STV6120)? They both seem to be long gone from the STMicroelectronics website.

We would be very interested in purchasing some to build tuners with.

Thanks

Dave, G8GKQ

[SkyVision]

Hi Dave

These guys from ST(might be who to speak to) they know something about Nims
But the projects they worked on are finished, a combination of RF and Software people

thierry.delahaye@st.com
philippe.loyer@st.com
olivier.crone@st.com
olivier.husson@st.com
pascal.audiffren@st.com
mathias.hilaire@st.com

However "ST went out of business with set-top box chips a few years ago"
Somehow that went over to https://easii-ic.com/en/satcom/ The brains trust is in Grenoble in the French Alps
They may suport ST products and only have a couple of solutions in their stable (maybe EOL)
"there is no replacement for the STiD135 and, as far as we know today, there will be no replacement" (from earlier this year)

Their demodulator STiD135 is canvased by crazycat69 here:
https://github.com/tbsdtv/linux_media/b ... id135-fe.c
Two of the names above lead the development of STid135 software and the others were CC when asked them about low Symbol Rate Nims
Someone called Peter possibly Peter Bensch was supposed to get back to me and hasn't...too hard basket maybe

You might ask a question here https://community.st.com/ or contact easii
STiD135 is still available, but does it do narrow band, and will anyone help, getting the STV0910 or STV6120 might be a thing
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/ ... 55885.html
https://octopart.com/stv6120-stmicroele ... s-74146775

Cheers Roger

[g8ayc]

I found this Chinese supplier for the STV0910 chips, they appear to have 1134 in stock.

http://www.ameya360.com/search/STV0910/1 I asked for a quote and they came back with US$120 each which is a bit expensive!

Also, this Hong Kong company appear to have 2,500 in stock of the STV6120.

https://www.sense-elec.com/Order_online ... 120BT%20IC

73 Nigel G8AYC.

[PE5PVB]

Hi Sjef

Do you know of a source for the STV0910 (or the STV6120)? They both seem to be long gone from the STMicroelectronics website.

We would be very interested in purchasing some to build tuners with.

Thanks

Dave, G8GKQ

I can't find them either. Strange, because I thought I found it on the STMicro website last week. Maybe it was an old inactive page which showed up