Ah yes, you need to respect the limitations of the USB link to the Pluto, it doesn't really do high symbol rates but then these days we don't need them anyway. If you have to do 1 Ms make sure you use a high FEC. Bonus it will improve the SNR performance. Even 1/4 rate is still more than enough for good quality video. The bandwidth of the transport stream matters so higher FEC means less data transfer.
Mike
OBS and DATV Easy 2.16
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This forum is run by the BATC (British Amateur Television Club), it is service made freely available to all interested parties, please do not abuse this privilege.
Thank you
Re: OBS and DATV Easy 2.16
Thanks for that Mike,
my pursuit of 1000kS/s is for use as a repeater, where the proposed BATC standard is 1000kS/s FEC 2/3.
Its obviously important to keep 1000ks/s bitrate so existing analogue users can migrate with cheap satellite boxes. I have found one that does H265 as low as 1000KS/s.
So if I used FEC of 1/3 or 1/4 I would probably have a reliable cheap repeater comprised of a PC and Pluto. I have added cheap analogue capture and a HDMI capture dongles for the analogue RX and Ryde DATV RX. The repeater switching control and beacon pages is all done in OBS.
Its only the occasional drop outs that has held up the project so far.
I have ordered a cheap H265 encoder so I may have a go with that as it seems to work for GB3NQ.
Duncan
G7VVF
my pursuit of 1000kS/s is for use as a repeater, where the proposed BATC standard is 1000kS/s FEC 2/3.
Its obviously important to keep 1000ks/s bitrate so existing analogue users can migrate with cheap satellite boxes. I have found one that does H265 as low as 1000KS/s.
So if I used FEC of 1/3 or 1/4 I would probably have a reliable cheap repeater comprised of a PC and Pluto. I have added cheap analogue capture and a HDMI capture dongles for the analogue RX and Ryde DATV RX. The repeater switching control and beacon pages is all done in OBS.
Its only the occasional drop outs that has held up the project so far.
I have ordered a cheap H265 encoder so I may have a go with that as it seems to work for GB3NQ.
Duncan
G7VVF
Re: OBS and DATV Easy 2.16
Hi Duncan
I drive my pluto with an ethernet adapter. I think that might work better. But I usually stick to 1/2 rate is using 1 Ms/s. 1 Ms at 1/4 rate FEC is pretty much the same as the 333ks 3/4 rate I use on QO100 and that seems reliable. 1Ms 1/2 rate H265 is able to deliver very good quality, certainly better than the old 2 Ms MPEG2.
For a repeater you need something ultra-reliable and I am not sure a Pluto is the best choice. You might find the Portsdown-Lime more reliable, or even, as it isn't frequency or rate agile, a Portsdown with the filter/Modulator board.
Mike
I drive my pluto with an ethernet adapter. I think that might work better. But I usually stick to 1/2 rate is using 1 Ms/s. 1 Ms at 1/4 rate FEC is pretty much the same as the 333ks 3/4 rate I use on QO100 and that seems reliable. 1Ms 1/2 rate H265 is able to deliver very good quality, certainly better than the old 2 Ms MPEG2.
For a repeater you need something ultra-reliable and I am not sure a Pluto is the best choice. You might find the Portsdown-Lime more reliable, or even, as it isn't frequency or rate agile, a Portsdown with the filter/Modulator board.
Mike
Re: OBS and DATV Easy 2.16
Mike,
I'm convinced it's a firmware incompatibility rather than data throughput, I have the same issues at 125KS/s, not quite as bad but still dropping out. I'm wondering if it would be worth asking Dominique to see if he could investigate?
73 Dave.
I'm convinced it's a firmware incompatibility rather than data throughput, I have the same issues at 125KS/s, not quite as bad but still dropping out. I'm wondering if it would be worth asking Dominique to see if he could investigate?
73 Dave.
...are you sure I can't use a pair of 813's?... 
Re: OBS and DATV Easy 2.16
Mike,
The laptop is set up for maximum performance; its power plan was tweaked when set up.
Clive
The laptop is set up for maximum performance; its power plan was tweaked when set up.
Clive
Re: OBS and DATV Easy 2.16
Why not Dave.
Re: OBS and DATV Easy 2.16
Dave
I may have found the issue and the reason why it didn't affect my system. So far it seems fixed on G4YTVs laptop.
I noticed whilst trying the various encoder options that the performance graphs in Windows Task Manager weren't changing as I expected them to.
Operating YTV's laptop remotely I configured the Easy to go through GB3EY and on its Ryde Rx the transmission came up as 333kS/s whereas i had set the symbol rate to be 1000kS/s. The parameters for Easy are held in the file dvb.ini within the hidden folder C:\Programdata\F1EJP
The file's last modified date was in early January when the software was installed. Clearly, the .ini file was not being updated by the application! The cause was found to be a permissions issue. The username Users was only assigned read and execute permissions.
Changing the permissions for that user to Full Control allowed the app to update the .ini file and now it will run for more than 15mins without a dropout using 1000kS/s, FEC 2/3 & H264 with the nVidia encoder.
To change the permissions, right click the .ini file, select properties in the dropdown menu, select the security tab, highlight users and then click edit. check the full control box and then click OK. You should then be able to see that the file's last modified date & time match when you changed the app settings. The bold checks in the screenshot show the added permissions.
It didn't affect my system because I run Active Directory from a Windows Server; my Windows login confers administrative rights across every file on any PC.
Clive
Edit: It's a lot better than it was but it's not the whole solution. it seems to get worse the longer you leave it on. Rats!!
I may have found the issue and the reason why it didn't affect my system. So far it seems fixed on G4YTVs laptop.
I noticed whilst trying the various encoder options that the performance graphs in Windows Task Manager weren't changing as I expected them to.
Operating YTV's laptop remotely I configured the Easy to go through GB3EY and on its Ryde Rx the transmission came up as 333kS/s whereas i had set the symbol rate to be 1000kS/s. The parameters for Easy are held in the file dvb.ini within the hidden folder C:\Programdata\F1EJP
The file's last modified date was in early January when the software was installed. Clearly, the .ini file was not being updated by the application! The cause was found to be a permissions issue. The username Users was only assigned read and execute permissions.
Changing the permissions for that user to Full Control allowed the app to update the .ini file and now it will run for more than 15mins without a dropout using 1000kS/s, FEC 2/3 & H264 with the nVidia encoder.
- easy.png (171.44 KiB) Viewed 96873 times
To change the permissions, right click the .ini file, select properties in the dropdown menu, select the security tab, highlight users and then click edit. check the full control box and then click OK. You should then be able to see that the file's last modified date & time match when you changed the app settings. The bold checks in the screenshot show the added permissions.
It didn't affect my system because I run Active Directory from a Windows Server; my Windows login confers administrative rights across every file on any PC.
Clive
Edit: It's a lot better than it was but it's not the whole solution. it seems to get worse the longer you leave it on. Rats!!
Last edited by G3GJA on Mon Mar 13, 2023 9:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: OBS and DATV Easy 2.16
Clive,
That sounds like a possibility, I'll check that tomorrow and will post my findings. You might just have earned yourself a pint if you're going to CAT23.
73 Dave.
That sounds like a possibility, I'll check that tomorrow and will post my findings. You might just have earned yourself a pint if you're going to CAT23.
73 Dave.
...are you sure I can't use a pair of 813's?...
Re: OBS and DATV Easy 2.16
Dave
I am now of the opinion that the DATV-Easy/Pluto system is not reliable enough for serious use.
I've come to that conclusion after several hours of testing with v0.35 & v0.36 Pluto firmware, different Plutos, USB and Ethernet linking to the host PC and different well specified host computers such as a Core i5 with RTX3050 graphics and another Core i5 with RTX A2000 graphics.
I've even reverted to DATV-Easy v2.12 on Richard G4YTV's system and I still see the same dropouts irrespective of any setting you care to choose for encoder hardware, compression type, FEC, symbol rate, resolution or sound parameter combination. The issue I found with permissions turned out to be a red herring so far as dropouts is concerned.
The dropout can be seen on a spectrum analyser as 'holes' dancing about in the spectrum mask. The video bandwidth needs to be wider than the usual 10kHz needed to monitor the shoulders of the spectrum mask to see the issue, which is reminiscent of buffer overuns seen with earlier systems.
I have a Lime Mini v1 that I will try to see if it is any better with DATV-Easy. It's built into my PD4 so it will be after the Activity Weekend before I try it. I'll also try running earlier Pluto firmware on my system to see if that has a bearing on it, but I'm not holding my breath!
What I have found to be reliable is using OBS with FreeStreamEndcoder v2.79 on the PC to send across Ethernet to my PD4 in IPTS mode which then in turn sends the data to either a Lime Mini connected to the Raspberry Pi or a Pluto linked via an Ethernet to USB adapter plugged into the OTG socket and powered using the second USB socket. That will run for at least 15mins without a dropout using 1000kS/s, FEC 2/3, 1280 x 720, H264 & 64kbs audio. It will send at 333kS/s too if the resolution is dropped to 960 x 540.
I'm disappointed that the DATV-Easy/Pluto doesn't work reliably because it has a 10-12dB lower noise floor than the Lime Mini. There are other problems with the Pluto but they are irrelevant so far as generating a DATV signal is concerned. Price of the SDRs is also a consideration.
73, Clive
I am now of the opinion that the DATV-Easy/Pluto system is not reliable enough for serious use.
I've come to that conclusion after several hours of testing with v0.35 & v0.36 Pluto firmware, different Plutos, USB and Ethernet linking to the host PC and different well specified host computers such as a Core i5 with RTX3050 graphics and another Core i5 with RTX A2000 graphics.
I've even reverted to DATV-Easy v2.12 on Richard G4YTV's system and I still see the same dropouts irrespective of any setting you care to choose for encoder hardware, compression type, FEC, symbol rate, resolution or sound parameter combination. The issue I found with permissions turned out to be a red herring so far as dropouts is concerned.
The dropout can be seen on a spectrum analyser as 'holes' dancing about in the spectrum mask. The video bandwidth needs to be wider than the usual 10kHz needed to monitor the shoulders of the spectrum mask to see the issue, which is reminiscent of buffer overuns seen with earlier systems.
I have a Lime Mini v1 that I will try to see if it is any better with DATV-Easy. It's built into my PD4 so it will be after the Activity Weekend before I try it. I'll also try running earlier Pluto firmware on my system to see if that has a bearing on it, but I'm not holding my breath!
What I have found to be reliable is using OBS with FreeStreamEndcoder v2.79 on the PC to send across Ethernet to my PD4 in IPTS mode which then in turn sends the data to either a Lime Mini connected to the Raspberry Pi or a Pluto linked via an Ethernet to USB adapter plugged into the OTG socket and powered using the second USB socket. That will run for at least 15mins without a dropout using 1000kS/s, FEC 2/3, 1280 x 720, H264 & 64kbs audio. It will send at 333kS/s too if the resolution is dropped to 960 x 540.
I'm disappointed that the DATV-Easy/Pluto doesn't work reliably because it has a 10-12dB lower noise floor than the Lime Mini. There are other problems with the Pluto but they are irrelevant so far as generating a DATV signal is concerned. Price of the SDRs is also a consideration.
73, Clive
Re: OBS and DATV Easy 2.16
Hi Dave,
Have you uninstalled all previous versions of DATV Easy?
You can only have one version installed for it to work.
73's
Martin
G8KOE
Have you uninstalled all previous versions of DATV Easy?
You can only have one version installed for it to work.
73's
Martin
G8KOE