Help! I'm really struggling with the Minitioune s/w...

Discussion about the MiniTiouner board and the MiniTiouner Digital ATV Receive Software. See also http://www.vivadatv.org/index.php
G8PEF
Posts: 176
Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2017 6:42 pm

Help! I'm really struggling with the Minitioune s/w...

Post by G8PEF » Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:02 pm

Hi, 'chaps'

I've spent nearly all day fiddling around with my MiniTiouner and RasPi, and I can't seem to get a pic on screen.
I've eventually got the Pi set to ugly mode, 437MHz and 333kS/s FEC2/3 and TXing the sequence of test cards (selecting any other source gets me no response on the MiniTioune s/w) - I don't have anything connected to the Pi, by way of camera or other source of pictures.

Anyway, I've eventually got the software to give me 95-100% carrier lock, 98-100% timing lock, and a relatively stable display of -43dBm Rf Power, and 10dB on the MER meter.
I have 2/3 ticked in the FEC selector, and DVB-S - 00333 in the SR box, 00437026 in the Freq box, Fplug =B, and 22kHz off.

In the Symbolrate box, it says that the SR set is 333375, Deviation varies between -5 and -15, and carrier width is 450. Mode B is ticked.

The constellation is fuzzy, but you can see it should be 4 clusters, and I have all 8 green lights on.
Viterbi err is flitting about between 650 and 900, and Vber is a fairly steady 1%. AutoPID keeps unselecting itself randomly. The PID boxes show 00256 ((Video), and 255 (Audio), MPEG-2 codec is selected, Format is auto, Zoom = adapt, and Audio = MPA.

I have a grey square where the picture should be, with some text that says 'No Video or bad codec/PID'.

Anyone got any bright ideas as to why I don't get a picture - or why selecting anything other than the test card sequence doesn't seem to result in any TX o/p?

Thanks for any suggestions/help.
John
G8PEF

G8PEF
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Re: Help! I'm really struggling with the Minitioune s/w...

Post by G8PEF » Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:07 pm

Update:

Shortly after I posted the message above, I had occasion to restart the software (twice; it crashed at the first attempt) and I noticed the when the Auto PID button unselected itself, the codec flipped to H264. This is entirely repeatable, if I select MPEG2 and click AutoPID it sets the codec back to H264, and it seems to have read PID info from the incoming data.
The byte count near to the bottom of the screen is now incrementing, but still no picture display.
There *was* a very brief flicker of the test card at one point, but it disappeared very quickly, never to be seen again.

PEF

zg3409
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Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2011 10:05 am

Re: Help! I'm really struggling with the Minitioune s/w...

Post by zg3409 » Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:31 pm

I would recommend asking on Jean Pierres website or emailing F6DZP directly. Also make a youtube video of what you can see.
I dont really understand your setup, but I gather you are using a PI as a DVB-S transmitter, and some form of minitouner as a receiver (which hardware etc?)

If you are just attempting to test the receiver, it might be better to use a known pure source such as from a satellite, although you would want a transponder as low band width as possible, as you can overload the USB band width and it sends the raw uncompressed transport stream over USB so you need USB2.0 and a good machine etc.

vk5bd
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Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2016 10:17 am

Re: Help! I'm really struggling with the Minitioune s/w...

Post by vk5bd » Fri Dec 29, 2017 3:40 am

Hello John,

A couple of things to help put your mind at ease,
The autopid function turns itself off once it has determined the PID's that are in the decoded data stream, so that would explain why it turns off and set the video mode to H264.
The Pattern function (Slide show of test cards with the scrolling CQ CQ text at the bottom) is in H264 format with no audio, that is why the PID's end up as V 256 and A 255.
If you are running the latest version of the Portsdown software, on menu 2 there is a Card Mpeg2 option, selecting this and then returning to menu 1 and TXing should give you a Mpeg2 Formatted output and the PID's will be V 256 and A 257, you should see your test card along with a tone and a regular beep.

Hope this is of some help,

Regards,
Bevan

G8GKQ
Site Admin
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Re: Help! I'm really struggling with the Minitioune s/w...

Post by G8GKQ » Fri Dec 29, 2017 1:42 pm

Hi John

I have seen similar symptoms, and there are 2 possible causes:

1. The QPSK H264 from the Raspberry Pi has too many minor errors for MiniTioune to decode it into a picture.

2. MiniTioune does not have a properly configured video decoder. (Everything else is behaving as I would expect)

I suggest that first of all, you minimise the chance of cause 1. The moving balls on the test cards is not a good test pattern as it conflicts with the encoding and transmission software. You should go back to the console and select "Desktop" as your input source. Unfortunately, this is not currently selectable from the touchscreen (the capability is on my to-do list). I test all new SD Cards for the shop using this source in Ugly mode and usually get a lock after a few seconds and a picture after 10 seconds or so.

The second cause seems less likely if you have seen a glimpse of test card, so I should leave MiniTioune well alone. You might want to test it on a FreeSat signal if you can: https://wiki.batc.org.uk/MiniTioune_sof ... ite_Signal

The symptoms you are seeing suggest that your Portsdown is working in Ugly mode, but may be struggling to generate a clean signal. I take it that you are not seeing the Power Supply warning (Lightning flash at top right of screen)? Don't spend too much time on MPEG-2 modes in Ugly transmission mode - I've never tested them. Desktop H264 is the or CAMH264 are the reliable "ugly" modes.

My advice to you would be to press on and connect up your Filter modulator board and everything should be a lot easier.

Dave

G8PEF
Posts: 176
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Re: Help! I'm really struggling with the Minitioune s/w...

Post by G8PEF » Fri Dec 29, 2017 2:41 pm

Thanks folks - it's good to know that I've not done something totally stupid :)

Thanks Dave - I'll give the desktop thing a try later (if I get a chance before family arrive for new year).

I wondered (because if something mentioned above, re USB bandwidth) whether there was any possibility that a USB problem might be responsible?
I probably should have detailed my software/hardware setup... I have the latest version of MiniTiouner (v0.7?) running under Windows 7 Which is itself running under Paralells as a virtual machine on a mid-2010 Mac Mini Server running OSX High Sierra.
Two potential issues spring to mind - 1) the Windiws is currently complaining that the licence is invalid (despite it having given no problem for almost 18 months), and 2) the USB ports are (obviously) part of the Mac hardware, and there's a certain degree of abstraction between the USB hardware and Windows.
Note that (licence issue aside, which is a new - this week - issue) the setup is very stable, and has no problems running other software packages that are notoriously 'twitchy' about it's operating environment - such as Motorola's CPS software for programming their DMR radios.

Does the hivemind reckon that there may be USB issues contributing to my problems?

g8gtz
Posts: 1733
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 6:26 pm

Re: Help! I'm really struggling with the Minitioune s/w...

Post by g8gtz » Fri Dec 29, 2017 3:51 pm

Hi John,

Ugly mode can be tricky to decode and give effects as you describe - make sure you have it set up as per the wiki page https://wiki.batc.org.uk/QPSKRF_or_Ugly_mode

Note the comment re multipath, which DVB-S cannot handle, around the shack when trying to radiate and pickup on loose coupling antennaes.

Re the crashes - Jean Pierre the designer posted on another thread, that USB performance is very critical with MiniTioune and the program will crash if you are not using a high quality USB lead. The MAC based system you describe may not be ideal and could be the cause of the crashes as you have already seen.

Have fun!
73
Noel G8GTZ

G1BVI
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Re: Help! I'm really struggling with the Minitioune s/w...

Post by G1BVI » Fri Dec 29, 2017 4:00 pm

Hi all
Also struggling to get an image and audio.
I followed the instructions but get no video or bad codec/PID

Capture.JPG
Capture.JPG (207.35 KiB) Viewed 5218 times
What is strange is that timing lock is at 81%?
I have attached a screen hot to show what I am getting

Hope someone can help
73

Nick

g0mjw
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Re: Help! I'm really struggling with the Minitioune s/w...

Post by g0mjw » Fri Dec 29, 2017 4:30 pm

As you are getting data, try recording the stream and playing it back with VLC. (Videolan client) that will help identify where the problem is. Are you using a modern PC?

Mike

PS 22ks is a lot - assuming this is coming from a satellite dish. Are you sure you have the correct PIDs correctly set? Are you trying to look at an encrypted channel?

G1BVI
Posts: 282
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Re: Help! I'm really struggling with the Minitioune s/w...

Post by G1BVI » Fri Dec 29, 2017 5:13 pm

Hi Mike
Just recorded a few seconds then played it back on vlc player.

I have a recording both video and audo.

Problem is that it is not being displayed on laptop.

The settings are as per the wikki pages for freesat ITV.

Laptop is a Lenovo R400 but I will try on something more modern.

Thanks for help
73

Nick

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