Minitoune v2 problem

Discussion about the MiniTiouner board and the MiniTiouner Digital ATV Receive Software. See also http://www.vivadatv.org/index.php
F6DZP
Posts: 217
Joined: Fri May 27, 2011 9:59 am

Re: Minitoune v2 problem

Post by F6DZP » Tue Jan 02, 2018 7:13 pm

Hello,
what seems strange is that in these tests there is no one with the circuit in operation and a DATV signal at the input of the tuner, which identifies a valid TS
the software that tests the MiniTiouner (TestMyMiniTiouner) and the software that tests the drivers and codecs installation (CheclMinitiouneDriversand Filters) are made to be used outside the situation where you are receiving a DATV signal. Many things must nbe checked before the last step : recive a signal.
The only thing that these software don't do: they cannot extract and show a TS from a DATV signal because....
If I develop a test to do "with the circuit in operation and a DATV signal at the input" I will have to offer the possbility to change the frequency, to change the Symbol rate, to see the RF signal to be sure that you are receiveing something, to also add some tools to see if you are locked or not etc..
......
well you just ask for a software like Minitioune.
Minitioune is the last tool to test if your MiniTiouner works well.

I come back to your problem:
- the 2 test software show that your NIM is working well and that your computer has the good codecs installed.
The only thing that these software cannot tell you: the TS effectively received is well transmitted to your PC via USB.
Using Minitioune:
as your NIM can lock and all leds are green in Minitioune that means that the TS is well extracted by the demodulator chip.
After that it goes to the output pins of the NIM, goes from the input on the PCB to the FT2232H, with a valid signal sent by the 74HC10
So, using an oscilloscope you should see signals on the 8 TS data pins (CN3-BD0..BD7) and Pin CN3-14
But perhaps you don’t need to check that
You say : « If I connect the "AutoPid", after a few seconds it automatically disconnects and goes to "PID from INI”,
1. If “few seconds” is 2 or 3 sec that means that Minitioune has found the video and audio PIDs
2. If few second is 15 sec that means that Minitioune stops to search because it cannot find any DVB tables in the TS because they don’t exist or because the TS bytes are badly received and data are unreadable
If the audio PID and video PID are found that means that you have no hardware issue. Just look at the values indicated in the audio PID and video PID boxes or click on “info checkbox’, you will see the result
If you get the 2 PID values, you don’t have to use an oscilloscope, all the hardware works well
If in the info page you see the PID scan going from 0 to 15 with the indication “no PAT”, you are in the second situation, the TS is bad.
Now you have to know why it is bad,
- are you sure of the TS transmitted, can you receive it with another tool (Tutioune3200 or Tutioune1600 or …)? If yes, that means the TS received has been damaged somewhere by the hardware.
So you need to checkwith an oscilloscope all signal I have indicated.
Remark : when you record the TS, you say that VLC cannot show the video when you play it, so I suppose that the TS bytes are bad and that Minitioune has no found any PID and “autoPID” button has stopped after 15 sec.
If you record 5sec of TS and send me the file, I could analyze it and tell you if the trouble is on bit 4 or 5 on each byte, so you know which pin to check and do a point of solder ….?
Jean-Pierre F6DZP

nix1296
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2016 4:15 pm

Re: Minitoune v2 problem

Post by nix1296 » Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:25 pm

Hello Jean Pierre and Mike
It all starts in my attempts to receive the ISS.
I noticed that receiving with the Tutioune 3200 and at the same time with a SAT receiver, specifically an Mvision, the received signal synchronized very quickly with the Mvision and with the Tutioune 3200 (more than two years ago that I have it), it took 10 seconds or more in sync up. without video transmission by ISS, but with all the reception parameters OK. Even in cases where there were signal interruptions due to tracking errors, the Mvision synchronized and the Tutioune 3200 because it needed more time, it did not synchronize.
I wanted to try the Minitiouner V7. that by what was read on Vivadatv and in this forum, it had a more evolved design.
First of all, congratulate you for this great work ... a work of giants!

I am an engineer in communications electronics, although I do not specialize in digital processes, but I must say that I appreciate your work in all its dimensions.

I understand perfectly your reasoning about the tests and their limitations. It was a comment within my ignorance.

You make a detailed process of deductions and I think that you very aptly fix the problem in the quality or absence of the TS, and therefore it is of course that everything else is correct.
As a separate comment as indicated by Mike, about 74hc10 I must say that I checked all the tracks of the PCB, and for not having a spare part of the 74hc10, I ordered it to RS (minimum quantity 25), which I received today, but with the same results.
I attach some photos of the oscilloscope.
74hc10: 3 gates NAND X 3: PIN 1,2,13 low, working as an inverter, PIN 12 HIGH, and another section PIN 11 = 12, PIN 10, train of pulses with period of 0.4 mS with 0.1 mS HIGH, PIN 9 Clock period 0.45 uS. PIN output 8 clock output at high intervals of PIN 10. (see pictures) (approximate values).
With Tutioune 3200 I receive the signal from the Digilite perfectly, and the Minitioune also tested it with a 10758 MHz satellite signal. SR22000, and also .... nothing.
I also attach the capture of the "INFO" file and a few seconds (DSAVE), TS.

Although I really regret giving so much trouble, I confess that it is very
Meas.rar
(691.81 KiB) Downloaded 297 times
exciting.

I hope and hope that these posts can be of help to anyone who has this problem.
Thanks for your help.
Magi -EA3UM-

nix1296
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2016 4:15 pm

Re: Minitoune v2 problem

Post by nix1296 » Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:46 pm

Sorry, I forgot.
The disconnection of the Autopid is at 15 sec.

VK5BI
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:32 am

Re: Minitoune v2 problem

Post by VK5BI » Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:08 am

I had a similar problem which caused hours of frustration. Everything come up ok on all the tests,the data reader said there was no problems with the TS. I scoped out all the data lines in the minitiouner without finding any problems. Turned out to be a dry joint on one pin of the serit tuner.

Wayne VK5BI

nix1296
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2016 4:15 pm

Re: Minitoune v2 problem

Post by nix1296 » Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:13 am

Hello Wayne
Do you remember what pin it was?
I'm already here to look at the chemical composition of tin. !!!
TNX
73
Magi EA3UM

VK5BI
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:32 am

Re: Minitoune v2 problem

Post by VK5BI » Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:16 am

I'm not 100% sure but I think it was pin 35. I am using the serit adaptor board. I ended up resoldering all the pins after that.

Wayne

nix1296
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2016 4:15 pm

Re: Minitoune v2 problem

Post by nix1296 » Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:21 pm

Congratulations.
I think I will not have this luck
73

nix1296
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2016 4:15 pm

Re: Minitoune v2 problem

Post by nix1296 » Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:40 am

EVIDENCE, DEDUCTIONS AND CONCLUSIONS
At the level of hardware I have proposed to analyze the mechanics of tuner operation, leaving aside the tests and raports provided by the Minitiouner system.

Analyzing with an oscilloscope the steps of a set top box Mvision that I have, I have seen that in its start-up there is no signal in the TS output of the tuner. Seeing the lines of the I2C, which are activated almost immediately at start-up, and I imagine that their data configure the different parameters of the tuner, TS signals, clock, etc. appear. and also almost immediately the image of a valid signal mpeg2 appears, applied to the input ... there are more details, but I describe what I consider most relevant.

In the Minitiouner the principle is the same. At start-up the tuner does not give any signal. When the I2C lines (SDA and SCL) are activated, a clock signal appears on pin 34 of the Serit (TS2, Clkout), and I think some other signal, and all the green leds are activated on the screen. indicators of Carrier, SR, RF Power. Mer, the constellation is formed, a small error rate in Viterbi, FEC and TS all in green, but "No Video or bad codec / Pid" instead of the normal video.

Important fact: No signal on the tuner pins corresponding to TS2. (Erratic static levels), but without activity.

CONCLUSION: I think that without a doubt, the tuner does not work, and it is also clear to me that the I2C is active at all times.

I do not see another possible diagnosis.

I would like to know some opinion about this problem or similar cases.

73
Magi -EA3UM-

F6DZP
Posts: 217
Joined: Fri May 27, 2011 9:59 am

Re: Minitoune v2 problem

Post by F6DZP » Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:08 pm

As I have said the 2 January:
If you record 5sec of TS and send me the .ts file, I could analyze it and tell you if the trouble is on bit 0, 1,2..6 or 7 on each byte, so you know which pin to check and do a point of solder ….?
Jean-Pierre F6DZP

nix1296
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2016 4:15 pm

Re: Minitoune v2 problem

Post by nix1296 » Thu Jan 11, 2018 7:35 pm

I am trying to attach the file, but I get the error "Invalid format" if I attach it in .ts format and in .rar (only 3 sec), it says "Too large".
How can I attach it?
Magi

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